Re: Eclair Cameras: question-angenieu 12-120 or zeiss 10-100 converted to s16 AN

[Leo Vale <leoavale@yahoo.com>]

--- eric jarvies <eric@earthid.org> wrote:
> also, in additon to having a wider film neg when
> modifying your camera 
> to s16, has anyone used an anamorphic attachment
> on-top of either of 
> these lenses in their s16 form?  if so, what are we
> looking at in terms 
> of picture size/aspect ratio?  and is it worth it?  

---  A 2x anamorphic gives a 2.66/1 aspect ratio on
regular 16mm, so the sides get cropped in a 35mm blow
up, where a 2.35/1 aspect ratio is used. On s16, you'd
get a 3.33/1 ratio which would get cropped to the same
size as the regular 16mm. THe tv safe action markings
would give you the correct sides for a 2.35/1 blow up,
using the full fframe height.

The rear diameters of the 16mm attachments and early
35mm camera attachments seldom are greater than 35mm,
the Kowa 16H aka 8Z is the exception with about a 43mm
rear diameter.  So the only zooms that are small
enough to use are the Ang.16-64, a 45-50 year old
design, and the small Pan Cinor 17-85 f/3.8, not the
big one with side finder.  & the widest you can get
with the zooms is around 32-35mm.  The Kowa 16H might 
get closer to 25mm, it's been so long I don't remember
for sure.  As to prime lenses, 25mm is the shortest
focal length you can use. We once searched for 16-17mm
lenses that  can be used with the Kowa 16H, we came up
with a17.5mm f/2.5 c-mt video lens that worked after
filing down the front.  But not that great of a lens
and akward to use.

Another thing to consider is that you have to focus
two lenses.  You can focus the backing lens by scale,
but the anamorphic would have to be focused by eye,
which is a real pain.

The anamorphic attachment for the LOMO Foton zooom
might work with the lenses you mention.  Since that's
designed to work with a zoom that's 37mm at its wide
end it ought to cover a zoom down to about 16mm.
Keep in mind that it is bigger and heavier tha an ACL.
& the focusing  problems mentioned above will apply.
The focus on that couples with the focus scale on the
Foton so they focus as a single unit.  But as I think
about it, the Foton front slips into the anamorphot,
so the focusing ring on another zoom might not be
easily accessable.

Ages ago Cinema Products was going to bring out a
system called Todd-AO 16 for a 1.85/1 blow up as an
alternative to S16.  It was an Iscorama-54 1.5x
attachment, which yields a 2/1 AR on 16R which would
be cropped slightly to 1.85 in the blow up.
The CP guy told me the lens would cover down to 16mm
on a Cooke 9-50.  But they were getting inconsistant
quality in the blow ups at different labs.  They
dropped the project. 
Iscorama-54s show up on eBay and are still availiable
from Isco/Schneider at a high price.
The Iscorama uses the same focusing system as the LOMO
round fronts, Technovision primes and Hawk
anamorphics.
The backing lens is set at infinity and all focusing
is done on the anamorphot.
On S16 the AR is 2.5/1, you can crop this slightly to
obtain 2.35/1.  But to convert the squeeze to 2x, you
would have to go through an HD or digital
intermediate.

If you were to frame for 2.35/1 on S16, like
Super35/SuperScope, you'd use the same image area as
16R with a 2x squeeze, and it also has the same image
height as 1.85/1 on 16R; which should give you an idea
as to how the S16 SuperScope blow up would look.
The much dispised French film "Irreversible" was
filmed in that format with an HD intermediate.  They
bent over backwards to make it as grainy as possible,
maybe even adding "digital grain".
THat movie zipped through town too fast for me to
catch it.
Also zooms and wide angles that don't quite cover S16
will cover the 'format'.

This last one seems to be the best option, but
obviously requires a custom marked ground glass.
The markings ought to be 5x12mm, one half the
dimensions of Super35.

yours in TohoScope,

---  LV

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