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Re: Eclair Cameras: T-max versus 7245

Hi, Julian

So what's the best B&W movie film to shoot on?

Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Williamson" <julian3rd@earthlink.net>
To: <EclairACL@topica.com>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Eclair Cameras: T-max versus 7245



Ian:

Are you talking about bleach-bypassing a B&W print?  I'm most familiar

with

the still B&W process and didn't realize that B&W prints were "bleached".
Could you explain?

Or were you talking about bleach bypassing a color print of a b&w

negative,

which brings me to my next question:  Who has printed B&W negative to a
color printstock, and what does it look like, especailly if

bleach-bypassed?

I'm looking for a contrasty, warmish tone from a black and white negative
and wonder how printing to color printstock would perform.

Thanks in advance,
julian

> From: Ian  <i_turpen@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: EclairACL@topica.com
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:52:42 -0700
> To: EclairACL@topica.com
> Subject: Re: Eclair Cameras: T-max versus 7245
>
> If you wanted to retain more silver, you could bleach bypass the B&W

print

> or use a scalable process to skip 50% of the bleach, which would give

you

> better blacks and more contrast.
>
> I've never read of anyone doing this with B&W.
>
> Alpha Cine in Seattle doesn't charge a set-up fee for this, but they

don't

> offer a scalable process.
>
> When I was the Head Processor at Bono Film in Virginia, we processed

some

> Nike commercials that were shot on Optical Soundtrack Filmstock which

was

> high contrast and low ASA, but wasn't as extreme as Hi-Con or Kodalith.
>
> I always liked the look of Black & White Reversal compared to Negative

which

> always looked milkier to me.
>
> I think anything shot with more lights at a lower ASA rating is always

going

> to look richer and more resemble technicolor, except for the color dyes

they

> used.
>
> -Ian
>
>> From: Leo Vale <leoavale@yahoo.com>
>
>
>> Reply-To: EclairACL@topica.com
>> To: EclairACL@topica.com
>> Subject: Re: Eclair Cameras: T-max versus 7245
>> Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>
>> --- Mark <super16acl@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Issues of grain aside ... I believe that real B&W
>>> film, photographed and lit
>>> correctly for B&W contrast, has a unique look when
>>> projected that can't be
>>> duplicated when color neg is printed in B&W. Perhaps
>>> I'm being too Artsy here.
>> --- I'll buy that about the B/W.  If nothing else,
>> there's the use of color filters for fine tonal
>> control.  You can't really use that on color stock for
>> a B/W print or transfer.
>>
>>> All I know is that when I see an original 35mm print
>>> of Citizen Kane, or the B&W
>>> Nykvist/Bergman films of the 50s, there has been
>>> nothing like that look to
>>> come out on the silver screen since the demise of
>>> real B&W, (except perhaps
>>> SHINDLER'S LIST and some of WOODY ALLEN'S MOVIES).
>>
>> --- "Print" and "real B&W" point to the problem.
>> I spent two and a half years restoring Fox Movietone
>> Newsreels, so I got to look at a lot of nitrate fine
>> grains and prints.  Another six years of restoration
>> work gave me a chance to see more nitrates.
>> Modeern B/W prints just don't ccompare, they look so
>> anemic next to a nitrate print.
>> 1000' of nitrate is and feels heavier than 1000' of
>> acetate.  The nitrate has more silver.  That shows on
>> the screen. Velvety blacks and rich tones.
>>
>> Shortly after acetate replaced nitrate, manufacturers
>> drasticly reduced the amount of silver in photographic
>> film.  The way that ASA film speed is determined had
>> to be modified to account for this.  And, of course,
>> the manufacturers have been cutting back on the silver
>> ever since.
>> I suspect that one of the reasons for the richness of
>> the color in three-strip Technicolor negs and even of
>> Eastman color neg from the early 50s is due to the
>> higher silver content.
>>
>> I don't know that anything can be done about this.
>> I'm inclined to think that B/W is a lost art.
>> I also think that all B/W movies should be in 'Scope
>>
>>
>> yours in TohoScope,
>>
>> --- LV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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