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Re: Eclair Cameras: reversal film-response/comments

Good points all around.

Raymond
----- Original Message ----- From: "eric jarvies" <eric@earthid.org> 
To: <EclairACL@topica.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Eclair Cameras: reversal film-response/comments



not only do you avoid the compression, you capture ONE frame at a time,

and the ENTIRE frame, as the modified projector has an expanded gate, unlike
those found at most telecine houses(me thinks).   so if you are capturing 2k
images to your hard drive, you can then assemble them into an avi or mov or
whatever and reduce the image down to miniDV if you prefer.  again, it all
depends on your final product.  if you are making a DVD like i am, it is
MUCH better capturing my film at HD quality, and then bumping down to DVD,
instead of capturing at telecine house and recording on miniDV, in which
case i would edit out to a final DVD(which would suffer, as DVD is capable
of higher quality images then is miniDV format).  and, if i had the goals
and luck to make it to the big screen one day, i can use my original HD
captured images, compile them into movies on the computer, save with
timecode, then make a comprssed miniDV copy of the file, and edit the miniDV
version, then once i have a final


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Raymond <roelrich@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: EclairACL@topica.com
Date:  Sun, 03 Aug 2003 15:59:37 -0700

>Thanks Eric,
>
>I will seriously consider this, as most of my work is going onto video. I
>like being able to put this directly into my computer without having to
>convert to tape, to avoid compression to DV?
>
>Thanks for the information.
>
>Raymond
>----- Original Message ----- >From: "eric jarvies" <eric@earthid.org> 
>To: <EclairACL@topica.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:56 PM
>Subject: Re: Eclair Cameras: reversal film-response/comments
>
>
>> the ONLY dfferance between a good DIY telecine unit and a pro unit is

the

>wetgate, and the divinci color correction.  HOWEVER, if you are using
>reversal film, you need not worry about little artifacts showing up as

white

>dots/blobs on the transfer as you would if it were negative film(which is
>why a wetgate is used).  therefore, the image quality in a DIY as

mentioned

>in my previous post, and a pro telecine is close to nil.  the BIG

differnace

>in the color correction.  HOWEVER, if you have an nle system, like

fcp4.0,

>you can color correct yourself, at which point you are now neck and neck
>with a pro telecine job.  in fact, if you have a higher res camera then

that

>of your telecine house, you could end up with better quality images.
>remember, you do not transfer to video TAPE(minidv, betasp, digibeta,

etc.)

>... you capture DIRECTLY to the hard drive.  so if you use a system like

the

>JK pronter with a digital still SLR camera(a good high res camera), you

will

>end up with higher qualit
>>
>> for use with digital still SLR camera(hd quality, 1fps, which is kind

of a

>slow transfer speed, but the quality is awesome):
>> http://www.jkcamera.com
>>
>>  or the 16mm workprinter that uses a condensor lens and is used with

video

>cameras of any sort or type.  the video camera must have a 14x lens or
>greater. so unlike the jk printer, which captures direct from the film
>without optics inbetween the camera and the unit, the following has a

high

>quality condensor lens:
>> http://www.moviestuff.tv
>>
>> both products have a user base that have nothing but good things to say
>about them.  although, i personally do not get along well with the owner

of

>the workprinter(major personality conflict), he does make a good product
>that works and does the job accoriding to his customers.
>>
>> because i live in mexico and am 1300 miles away from a telecine

machine, i

>have considered shooting reversal film and using one of the below

mentioned

>devices to transfer the footage myself.  because my film will end up on

DVD,

>this type of transfer using a reversal film is ideal!!  on the other

hand,

>if my final product was going to the big screen, then i would no doubt

want

>to stick with color negative film.  but honestly, at this point i have

only

>shot several thousand feet of s8 and 16mm film, and am just now beginning

to

>get things right in terms of exposure and focus and proper dof and

framing

>etc.  which is not saying i have shot several thousand feet of crappy

film,

>its just now i am finally shooting consistant film with consistant and
>repeatable results.  but i still have several thousand more feet to go
>before i can be confident what i am filming is what i will receive back

when

>the film is processed(meanwhile i will have to send my wife out on the
>corner, and gt my kids wa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> From: Raymond <roelrich@shaw.ca>
>> Reply-To: EclairACL@topica.com
>> Date:  Sun, 03 Aug 2003 15:21:17 -0700
>>
>> >Good point! Any difference in quality of video when you do it

yourself?

>> >
>> >Raymond
>> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "eric jarvies" <eric@earthid.org> 
>> >To: <EclairACL@topica.com>
>> >Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:20 PM
>> >Subject: Eclair Cameras: reversal film-response/comments
>> >
>> >
>> >> one thing that is an obvious advantage to shooting reversal film is
>that
>> >you can telecine the footage yourself using a modified 16mm projector
>with
>> >either a condensor lens(like a workprinter for example), or a custom
>setup
>> >like the jk, wherein you use an extension tube.  the transfer of the
>footage
>> >depends on the quality of the capturing camera.  on the workprinter,

if

>you
>> >are using a miniDV digital camera, broadcast 3 chip ccd camera, or any
>video
>> >camera, you can use the computer to capture one frame at a time(up to

6

>or 9
>> >fps). the resolution is based on the quality of the video camera/lens.
>the
>> >jk device allows you to use a digital still slr camera much the same

way

>as
>> >the workprinter, wherein the flash socket on the camera digital still

slr

>> >camera is modified so the jk machine can automattically advance the

film

>to
>> >the next frame, instruct the camera to shoot the image, and then

advance

>> >again, repeating the process until your roll of film is completed.

this

>> >latter process means
>> >>
>> >> the reason i mention it is because if you are shooting lots of

footage

>and
>> >have a nle setup at your home or office, it actually pays to purchase

one

>or
>> >the other of these units(workprinter under $2k and jk printer under

$5k,

>not
>> >including your choice of video or still digital camera) and
>> >telecine/transfer the footage yourself.  heck, 2000' of film woud

about

>pay
>> >for one of these, correct?  how much do you guys pay for telecine of

your

>> >color reversal film. or negative film for that matter?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> >> From: Raymond <roelrich@shaw.ca>
>> >> Reply-To: EclairACL@topica.com
>> >> Date:  Sun, 03 Aug 2003 15:02:36 -0700
>> >>
>> >> >Michael,
>> >> >
>> >> >I thank you for your insight into reversal film. I am also shooting
>100
>> >ft.
>> >> >rolls, and love them! I load them in daylight and have no problem

with

>> >them,
>> >> >shooting wildlife films. That is not easy when you are using 400 ft
>mags
>> >and
>> >> >run out of film, and have to carry not only the film, but the

changing

>> >bag
>> >> >as well out into the field. I am getting a back up camera to have

one

>> >> >loading while I am shooting the other one. (Need an assistant!)
>> >> >
>> >> >What ASA film do you shoot for reversal film? I have access to some
>> >> >Kodachrome, as well as other Kodak reversal film, and would like to
>shoot
>> >> >it. Anyone have any experience with Fuji reversal film? For outdoor
>> >filming
>> >> >with wildlife, what film would you suggest?
>> >> >
>> >> >Anyone know where to get recanned or short end film in 16mm, either
>> >negative
>> >> >or reversal?
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks
>> >> >
>> >> >Raymond
>> >> >
>> >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >> >From: "Michael Welle" <mwelle@starband.net> 
>> >> >To: <eclairacl@topica.com>
>> >> >Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 8:44 AM
>> >> >Subject: RE: Eclair Cameras: That Stupid Connector! :-(
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Correction in last message: And everyone says "Don't shoot

negative,

>> >> >> shoot reversal."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That should actually read: And everyone says "Don't shoot

reversal,

>> >> >> shoot negative."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Michael
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> eric martin jarvies sr
>> >> cabo san lucas, bcs mexico cp 23410
>> >>
>> >> >>>NOTICE<<<
>> >> ANY AND ALL WRITTEN TEXT EXCHANGED IN THIS EMAIL THREAD MAY BE
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>> >EXACT SAME RIGHTS IN RETROSPECT.
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> eric martin jarvies sr
>> cabo san lucas, bcs mexico cp 23410
>>
>> >>>NOTICE<<<
>> ANY AND ALL WRITTEN TEXT EXCHANGED IN THIS EMAIL THREAD MAY BE

REPRODUCED

>IN ANY FORM FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING NON AND FOR PROFIT, FOR

THE

>PURPOSES OF MY OWN INFORMATION EXCHANGE AND PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE
>KNOWLEDGE-BASE / FORUM / JOURNAL, LOCATED AT HTTP://WWW.EARTHID.ORG OR

ANY

>OTHER INTERNET SITE OR FORM OF PRINT/DIGITAL/ANALOG MEDIA, INCLUDING BUT

NOT

>LIMITED TO; VHS, DVD, FILM, PUBLICATION(BOOK, MAGAZINE, ADVERTISEMENT),

AND

>AUDIO.  RESPECTIVE CREDIT, COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARK, SERVICEMARK, OR PATENT

WILL

>BE MADE PART THEREOF ACCORDINGLY.  PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SLANDER OR

HERESAY,

>AND CONSIDER ANY SUCH QUOTE(S) I MAY USE FROM THIS COMMUNICATION THREAD A
>DIRECT REFLECTION OF YOU AND/OR YOUR POSITION AS IT RELATES TO THE

DISUSSED

>SUBJECT MATTER AND YOUR OVERALL OPINION(S) ACCORDINGLY AND RESPECTFULLY,
>UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED.  I GIVE FULL PERMISSION FOR YOU TO EXPRESS THE
>EXACT SAME RIGHTS IN RETROSPECT.
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

--
eric martin jarvies sr
cabo san lucas, bcs mexico cp 23410

>>>NOTICE<<<
ANY AND ALL WRITTEN TEXT EXCHANGED IN THIS EMAIL THREAD MAY BE REPRODUCED

IN ANY FORM FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING NON AND FOR PROFIT, FOR THE
PURPOSES OF MY OWN INFORMATION EXCHANGE AND PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE
KNOWLEDGE-BASE / FORUM / JOURNAL, LOCATED AT HTTP://WWW.EARTHID.ORG OR ANY
OTHER INTERNET SITE OR FORM OF PRINT/DIGITAL/ANALOG MEDIA, INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED TO; VHS, DVD, FILM, PUBLICATION(BOOK, MAGAZINE, ADVERTISEMENT), AND
AUDIO.  RESPECTIVE CREDIT, COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARK, SERVICEMARK, OR PATENT WILL
BE MADE PART THEREOF ACCORDINGLY.  PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SLANDER OR HERESAY,
AND CONSIDER ANY SUCH QUOTE(S) I MAY USE FROM THIS COMMUNICATION THREAD A
DIRECT REFLECTION OF YOU AND/OR YOUR POSITION AS IT RELATES TO THE DISUSSED
SUBJECT MATTER AND YOUR OVERALL OPINION(S) ACCORDINGLY AND RESPECTFULLY,
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED.  I GIVE FULL PERMISSION FOR YOU TO EXPRESS THE
EXACT SAME RIGHTS IN RETROSPECT.

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