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Re: Eclair Cameras: More ACL problems

If you have that much fogged film on a roll then you have a serious problem somewhere. Do you tape your mags. If not maybe you should do so.

As soon as I can make photos of the inside of the mags I will send you info on where to look for light leaks. I will include a diagram of how I set my loop.
On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 10:16  AM, Chris Leong wrote:

Hi August

Thanks for some straight answers. More info for you:

a) it was around 60ft fogged, not 2 ft. It was the tail 60ft, so like
a daylight load fog, but 30feet at least, not 2ft. Stock was 7274
from a factory sealed can.

b) maybe the loop was not long enough (I have a CM3 and set the loop
   on the ACL visually, inserting finger etc. I've since downloaded a
manual). Could explain the scratching but not the fogging.

c) where exactly are the problem areas for the lids? I don't see any
kind of light leak problem potential area.

I've been a shooter since 1975 and have built my own (view) cameras and
coated my own (glass) plates. I'm not a tech but I"m pretty camera
savvy. This one's got me stumped.

Thanks again August. If you're in the LA area I may have the camera sent
to you for a checkup...


august loessberg wrote:

In the twenty seven years I have been shooting film I have never heard
of a
film can leaking light unless some one actually perforated it. Daylight
spools are designed to be loaded in very subdued light.  If you are
your film in a shaded area and outside a change bag, you should count on
fogging at least the first two feet of each roll.  If that is the case
that is where your fog is the problem is you. Change your MO.
As for scratches.  I am a camera tech and my experience has shown the
70-90% of film scratches occur in the gate not the mag.  If the mag
are clean and the mag is loaded properly, ( sometimes a novice loads the
loop wrong) there should be no place a mag can scratch the film.  Mag
rollers that are freely rolling cannot scratch film, that is why it is
unnecessary to modify mag rollers when upgrading to S16.
Check your gate with a piece of film about two inches long. Subdue the
and rub the film back and forth in the gate.  Check the gate with a
magnifier to find any burrs or irregularities.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Leong [mailto:emotepix@artnet.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:04 AM
To: EclairACL@topica.com
Subject: Eclair Cameras: More ACL problems

Hi Gerald
Thanks for the information. Here's what I found:

The rubber lining to the doors seems to be intact and probably recently
replaced, since I can't see any shrinkage at all around the rims and
near the hinges. I picked the camera up from Opto Electric House where
apparently it had just undergone some service/refurbishment.

The spring housing (three screws hold down a plate on the takeup side)
seems clean and the spring itself taut and with maybe a little light
grease on it. Little or no slippage between the spring and the takeup
core - i.e. when you turn the core, the film sprocket roller turns
without give as well)

So I conclude it must have been the lack of the black plastic bag in the
film can (don't forget I used a regular core on the takeup side, not a
daylight spool). I assumed that the lid of the film can would be
sufficiently light-tight. Apparently not.

A test screening showed that it was in fact the tail of the film that
was fogged, with the final few winds showing the classic sprocket-burn
in typical of regular fogging outside the camera.

The test also showed two neg scratches on the left of the frame, pretty
much through the entire 200ft reel.

I'm going to proceed as if that's debris caught in the feed side channel
(i.e. the part that leads from the feed side to the gate/loop side of
the magazine). Doesn't seem like it's the rollers, since the scratches
are continuous. Could be the channels above/below the pressure plate as
well. Suggestions/experiences?

Has anybody done a disassembly/deep cleaning of an ACL mag? Which parts
to steer clear of (i.e. don't touch because of critical allignment)?

Sorry for the long message.


Gerald Loessberg wrote:

I have found that the 200 magazine develops two problems with age both of which are in play with your experience. The first is fogging. This
is caused by shrinkage of the sound deadening material inside the
doors. It begins to let a small ray of light leak into the mag.  When
the film is still for a period of time it will fog two to five frames
with blue flash.  To cure the problem put camera tape over the light
leak on the inside of the door.  The second is a loose or slipping
spring drive band that drives the take up reel. check under the guide
plate to see if this spring is stretched or dirty.  cleaning it with
denatured alcohol usually helps.
On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 10:39  AM, Chris Leong wrote:

Hello fellows

Have some potential problem areas with my ACL1/English 200ft mags that
thought I'd put to you as a group before I take more drastic measures:

1) test footage was partly fogged. Mag lids felt okay on seating.
However, since the 200ft load was on a daylight spool, it didn't have a black plastic bag, so I didn't use one after exposure. I think that may
have been the culprit, but I don't know. I've never used a 200ft
daylight load before, and I've always had bags in my film cans. Come to
think of it, that's probably the main cause. Agree?

2) the takeup wind was loose on unloading. I had to press the coils
to fit the wind back into the film can. It was loose enough that I
wasn't concerned about scratching as I reformed the loops flat. No, I didn't cinch the roll tight after that. Is this another effect of using
the 200ft daylight load? i.e. uneven core sizes? (takeup side was a
normal 2" plastic core)

Sorry if this sounds a bit basic. My first film through an ACL.


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